L'origine des TURCS

voila l histoire des turcs

The Turkic people originated from the northern branch of Mongoloid that initially inhabited around the lake Baikal in Siberia. Also based on scripts and excavations it is known to scientists today that one of the earliest known Turkic people, the Quanyi, lived in Ordos and Inner Mongolia. They shared ancestors with other Altaic people like Mongols and Tsungusic people. The Turks/Turkut/Tujue was originally pure mongoloids, like mongols.
After their conquest of Central Asia, they mixed with some White people who occupied oasys cities in the Tarim Basin at that time. After that they were more like Mongoloid still, but they were not pure Mongoloids either but still they kept the mongol spirit of their forefathers and still their language was mongol as most of their customs and uniforms also. Turkic peoples in general, incluiding the Tu Jue, the Ding Lin and Gui Fang and the rest of the Turanians as well were recorded from Chinese scripts of the time to have slanted eyes, long but not thick facial hair and lots of body hair (body hair was a feature they got after mixing with the few withes they conquered as body hair is something that pure mongols dont have).
The Tujue/Turku/Turuk/Turks were divided cause of their gerography location into two basic and very simmilar groups (each group consists also of many smaller groups of Turkish/Turanian tribes) : The Eastern turku (Dong Tujue) and the Western turuk (Xi Tujue). In the 7th century, during the time of Ishbara Khaghan, the Western turku was re-organised into ten tribes and were given the name On Okh ("Ten Arrows" meaning Ten Tribes, in the language of another turanian turkish tribe it means ten allies). This On Okh was divided into two groups: the Nushibi (West) and the Tolu ( East). The On Okh also incluided the Turgish and Pecheneg Turks, the Turgish later disappeared from history after 766 (they probably assimiliated into the Kharlukh Turks and later the Oghuz Turks). The Pechenegs migrated to Eastern Europe but they were massacred by the Khypchakh Turks in 1092 . The remaining Pechenegs melted in the European Oghuz and Khypchakh Turks.
The Eastern turku people became subjects of the Orkhun Uyghur Khaghanate (another Turkish/turanian tribe that united under its control the rest tribe at this time)also known as the Tokhuz Oghuz-On Uyghur Khaghanate. In 840, the fierce Khyrghiz (another turkish/turanian tribe) invaded Mongolia and destroyed the Uyghur Khaghanate; the Uyghurs migrated to Turfan and Kansu, where they founded two smaller khaghanates.
The Orkhun Uyghurs (composed of Ten Tribes) were living together with the Tokhuz Oghuz (Nine Tribes). However, in 840, when Mongolia fell in chaos, the turku disappeared, the Uyghurs scattered to two regions and the Tokhuz Oghuz were left alone. These Nine tribes migrated to Western Turkistan after 840 and settled on the plains north of the Aral Sea and Syr-Derya. There, the Nine Tribes mixed with some other turkish tribes who inluided Turkic and a few Iranic ramnents, some of the original tribes splitted and re-arraned to form new tribes; thus forming the OGHUZ TURKS (Uz/Uzoi in Greek, Tork/Torki in Russian, Ghuz in Arabic). During the 10th-11th centuries, these Oghuz were made up of 22 tribes (as a result of mixing and re-arrangements). During the 12th century (ot after the 1070s), they became 24 tribes.
The Oghuz had established a state north of the Aral-Syrderya. This state was destroyed by the newly-arrived Khypchak-Kuman Turks (who had broken from the main Kimek Turks in Sourthwestern Siberia; the Kimek were the descendants of the Chik people) in 1030; some of the Oghuz fled to the Pontic Steppes (where they were named as Torki by the Russians) and later migrated to Romania-Dobruja-Moldova. Most of the larger body of Oghuz gathered around Selchuck/Selchur/Salchukh Begh (son of Commander Dukhakh from the Khynykh tribe) and became Muslim; they first migrated to Transoxiana but they were expelled from there by the Khara-Khanid Turkish Dynasty. The Muslim Oghuz (called Turkman/Turkoman or Turkmen meaning "Muslim Turks") then fled to Khorasan-Turkmenistan. There, a small group of them broke and went to Iraq (who formed today's Iraqi Turkmans). Some of the larger body stayed there and became the Eastern Turkmans while yet a larger group went to Iran, Armenia-Azerbaijan and finally to Anatolia/Ionia. As you know, the "Byzantine" Greek army was defeated by the Salchukhid/Selchuid sultan Alp Arslan in August 26 1071; after the battle, thousands of Turkmens (still calling themselves as Oghuz, which was abandoned after the 11th-12th centuries) entered Anatolia/Asia Minor and settled there. In the 13th century, a new wave of Turkmens entered Anatolia; this time, these Turkmens were a large group of the Eastern Turkmens fleeing from the Mongol Invasions. Among the second wave of migrations was the Khay tribe which later established the Osmanli or Ottoman Sultanate.
The Khay founded the Ottomans, the Khynykh founded the Salchukhids/Selchuchids, the Afshars founded the Kharamanids and Qachar Dynasty in Iran. All were Oghuz Turks. The modern Turks in Anatolia and Balkans are the general mix of Turkmens who migrated to Asia Minor with Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and Slavs. The Iraqi Turkmens are the smaller group that broke away in Khorasan. The Turkmens in Iran , Khorasan, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan are the Eastern Turkmens. The Muslim Oghuz that settled in Azerbaijan were re-named as Azeris.
The Western Turkmens, Eastern Turkmens and Azerisall are from the Oghuz. The Oghuz are the mixture of Tokhuz Oghuz and other turkish tribes. The Tokhuz Oghuz are one part of the turanian/turkish nation, who descended from the Ding Ling. And those are what we call today Turks. But its well known that those are not the only Turks; There are also the Uyghurs, the Kutrigurs,Oghuz/T.Oghuz, Khazars, Sabars,Avars,Tatars, Mongols, Khouns,Huns, Hunogundur, Oghurs, Khyrghiz, Kharlukhs, Turgish, Pechenegs, Khypchakhs, Kimeks, Kumans and many many other turanian/turkish/mongoloid tribes.

Here is a statue of Kul Tegin born in 685 and died in 731, he was the high commander of Eastern Türük armies, one of the greatest warlord of the turkish tribes and one of the greatest hero's for Turks today. This statue is located in the Museum of Ulaanbaatur, capital of Mongolia. The strong mongol features are presented in his head statue clearly. A typical turanoid mongol.

Turks and Mongolians which placed together on the scene of Central Asian History lived for thousands of years side by side and sometimes together. This togetherness, with otherwords, brotherhood continued sometimes with friendship and sometimes with struggles. The linguistic proximity of this two community is already known. The togetherness in Central Asia that started from the very early stages of the history continued till the past centuries. In the analysis of this togetherness there are two dimensions; political relations and cultural relations. Political relations include relations of war and peace rather, a multidimensional struggle which is a result of sharing the same territory. The cultural relations includes the proximity of maintaning the similar life styles with minimal differences which is the result of living together. Although some differences occured as a result of Turkish communities moved firstly to Western Central Asia and than to the front Asia in the second part of 10th century, relations with Turkish origin communities like “Kipchak”, Kirghiz and “Uyghur” continued for centuries.


............They developed all kind of cultural and political relations. This relation was so close that sometimes Turkish tribes Mongolianised, and sometimes Mongolian tribes Turkisized. As a result of this situation, many times the sources couldn’t decide which tribe is Turkish or Mongolian, they accepted them both Turkish and Mongolian.

The name "Turk" (Türük/Tujue/Tr'wk/Tourkh) was first used in the 6th century (the exact date of this name being mentioned in the Chinese sources is 542), for an empire established by a people carrying this name. The Türük people established an empire which lasted until 744. This empire is today known as the "Gök Türk" Empire. In the 6th-8th centuries, this name was used for the peoples living under the rule of the Türük Qaghanate (so in the 7th-8th centuries it had also become a political term - like "Ottoman").

The term "Turkic" is a modern term and it's used for many peoples who were related with this Türük people.

In the 7th century, the Muslim Arabs started calling all the peoples related with the Türük/Tujue with the name "Turk" (plural Etrâk). So, even though the name Turk was originially the name of only one people, it was later used for an entire group of related peoples (similar to how the name "Greek" was adopted by the Romans for all the Hellens).

However, the modern name "Turk" is used for the citizens of the Republic of Turkey. The Islamic term "Turk" used for all these peoples related with the Türük/Tujue is now "Turkic" in the modern world. Modern Turks of Turkey are the descendents of a Turkic people known as the Oghuz in the Middle Ages.

Yet, I must also add the fact that there were already Turkic peoples before the Tujue appeared. They weren't called Turk or Turkic back then, but today we know that they are Turkic.

Turks and Mongols share a common homeland--Mongolia. In ancient times they also shared very similar cultures and religious beliefs. Like Yun said they had different languages, but there was also a lot of word-borrowing between the languages too. Eventually the Turks expanded beyond Mongolia and spread their language and culture across Asia. Many Turks moved west and converted to Islam. Eventually one group of Muslim Turks, the Seljuks, became the rulers of Persia and laid the foundation for Turkey.

The original Turkic tribes were mongoloid.. physically similar to, if not the same stock, as proto-Mongols.. like stated previously, alot of vocabulary is similar (especially with Turkic Languages such as Kyrgyz, Tyvan, old Uighur, etc).. and a similar grammar system.

However in modern times, I guess one could say being a "Turk" is like being a "Han", in which it is more of a cultural and linguistic identity rather than racial. Ancient Turkic-speaking groups tend to mix with whatever inhabitants they conquered/settled with. As such, the Seljuks adopted Caucasian and Med. features, Chuvash and Tatars adopting more Finnic/Uralic features, and Turkmen, etc adopting Persian-like features. In fact from the farthest western and farthest easter distribution of Turkic groups, one could see a gradual physical change between racial features.. ranging from the Sakha (aka Yakuts) who are completely Mongoloid with Tungusic strains, to the Crimean Tatars and Chuvash who are completely Caucasoid. I suppose some could argue that the Bashkirs are in the middle, looking neither completely "white" nor completely "asian", but having features of both.

de ces paragraphes on comprend que les turcs qui sont restes nomades confines a leur steppes ont conserve des traits mongoloides
par contre ceux sedentarises se sont melanges avec les caucasoides iraniens
les uyghurs avec les iraniens tochariens
les uzbek avec les iraniens tajis
les turkman avec les iraniens khawarezmians
les turkmen avec les iraniens perans
quand aux turcs d'anatolie ils sont pour 90%des grecs hittites anatoliens lydiens armeniens georgiens laz caucasiens chechenes circassiens tcherkess roumains bulgares slaves albanais arabes kurdes assyriens iraniens tajik ... turquifies linguistiquement et le reste des turco-iraniens cad des turcs melanges a des iraniens

io-politiques et historiques dans l'identite des turcs de tunisie
avant tout il faut savoir que les turcs sont des groupes de tribus nomades originaires du sud de la siberies a l ouest de la mongolie et au nord de la chine
dans la region appelee altay
les chinois construisirent la muraille de chine pour contrer les razzia des hordes turcs mais en vain
de nos jous les langues turcs sont parles de la croatie(les turcs du balkan)jusqu au detroit de bering entre la prsque ile de kamtckala et l alaska
d ailleurs kamatchkala signifie en turc la place ou est cultive al qsab
hs:je reviendrais pour terminer ce sujet aujourd hui car mon conge finit aujourd hui et je n aurais plus le temps d'entrer souvent a ce merveilleux forum

voila la distribution geographique des langues turques


vous remarquerez qu elle s'etend du detroit de bering jusqu a la lituanie est-ouest
et du nord de la siberie jusqu au sud de l iran nord-sud


voila le phenotype touranide resultant du mixage entre le phenotype mongoloide des turcs et caucasoide

[hanzukik]

voila le phenotype des turcs turquifies linguistiquement mais qui n ont pas mixe avec les conquerants turcs vu l'infime proportion des conquerants turcs face au nombre des populations deja installes
sans oublier le systeme de devshirme qui consiste a voler des petits enfants des pays voisins pour en faire les janissaires
et en se basant qu au 19 eme siecle il y avait presuqe 4 mln de janissaires on peut savoir comment c est errone de se declarer d origine turque pour par exemple les tunisiens qu y se reclament alors que meme l ecrasante majorite de la population de turqui n est pas d'origine turque





ataturk un albanais de macedoine

[hanzukik]

voila le phenotype des purs turcs

















voila la carte du prmier empire realise par les turcs et ce dans leur homeland au nord de la chine l empire de xiongnu




voila les charcteristiques phenotypiques des turcs

[hanzukik]

portraits d habitants de la turquie turquifies linguistiquement

le pays originel des turcs

[Nizam al Molk]

tu confonds beaucoup de choses mon ami
quand les tunisiens se disent d'origine turque, ils parlent d'ancétres immigrés du défunt empire ottoman, appelé communément turquie. les habitants actuels de la turquie, se sentent culturellement , linguistiquement et historiquement turcs. mais ils savent trés bien qu'une écrasante majorité de l'actuelle turquie est originaire des balkans ou du caucase qui se sont convertis à l'islam et qui se considérent turcs aujourd'hui et ce à 400 %.
d'autre part, on peut faire ta méme analyse pour les syriens ou les libanais ou jordaniens ou palestiniens, qui se disent arabes, mais tout le monde sait qu'une grande partie est originaire de populations islamisées des croisades ou du caucase ( l"empire ottoman a exilé une énorme population dans cette région). c'est la raison pour laquelle il ya beaucoup de personnes de type si europeen dans cette région spécifiquement. ( à comparer avec les saoudiens par exple qui se disent autant arabes, mais à peau trés matte).
tout ca pour dire, que le plus important c'est l'appartence culturelle à un peuple. par exemple , on dit qu'un epersonne est arabe si elle parle l'arabe, si elle se sent arabe et si elle se dit arabe. peu importe qu'elle vienne de chine ou de guinée.

[hanzukik]

Envoyé par Nizam al Molk

tu confonds beaucoup de choses mon ami
quand les tunisiens se disent d'origine turque, ils parlent d'ancétres immigrés du défunt empire ottoman, appelé communément turquie. les habitants actuels de la turquie, se sentent culturellement , linguistiquement et historiquement turcs. mais ils savent trés bien qu'une écrasante majorité de l'actuelle turquie est originaire des balkans ou du caucase qui se sont convertis à l'islam et qui se considérent turcs aujourd'hui et ce à 400 %.
d'autre part, on peut faire ta méme analyse pour les syriens ou les libanais ou jordaniens ou palestiniens, qui se disent arabes, mais tout le monde sait qu'une grande partie est originaire de populations islamisées des croisades ou du caucase ( l"empire ottoman a exilé une énorme population dans cette région). c'est la raison pour laquelle il ya beaucoup de personnes de type si europeen dans cette région spécifiquement. ( à comparer avec les saoudiens par exple qui se disent autant arabes, mais à peau trés matte).
tout ca pour dire, que le plus important c'est l'appartence culturelle à un peuple. par exemple , on dit qu'un epersonne est arabe si elle parle l'arabe, si elle se sent arabe et si elle se dit arabe. peu importe qu'elle vienne de chine ou de guinée.

cher forumien il faut savoir que les habitants du levant(bilad al sham)sont pour une ecrasante majorite(90%)d'origine arabe et ils peuvent te tacer leurs origines jusqu au tribus ghassanides et adnanites les ancetres des arabes du levant et les types d'apparence claire peuvent etre arabes car meme au temps du prophete il y avait des tribus 100% arabes et comportants des elements blonds qui sont des blonds mediterranene sdifferents des blonds nordiques
d'une facon generale les arabes issus des adnanites(nejd en arabie saoudite le levant et l'ouest d'iraq) ont la peau plus claire que les arabes qa7tanites(le hijaz le yemen l'iraq le levant)
par contre pour la turquie meme pas 0,1%des dits turcs de turquie sont d'origine turque

[Nizam al Molk]

cher ami
je te félicite pour toutes les données que tu apportes.
permets moi seulement de te dire, que les 90 % du bilad al cham, c impossible.
concernant la Turquie, je sui plus d'accord avec toi, mais quand tu dis ça à un Turc, il s'éerve trés vite, ils détestent les Grecs; alors qu'ils ont 8 chances sur 10 d'en étre .

hanzukik
peux tu me préciser certains d'ouvrages de référence ou des sites internet qui te donnent toutes ces informations stp ??
3aychou

[hanzukik]

Envoyé par Nizam al Molk

cher ami
je te félicite pour toutes les données que tu apportes.
permets moi seulement de te dire, que les 90 % du bilad al cham, c impossible.
concernant la Turquie, je sui plus d'accord avec toi, mais quand tu dis ça à un Turc, il s'éerve trés vite, ils détestent les Grecs; alors qu'ils ont 8 chances sur 10 d'en étre .

hanzukik
peux tu me préciser certains d'ouvrages de référence ou des sites internet qui te donnent toutes ces informations stp ??
3aychou

cher mr nizam al molk
pour ce qui est des 90% je parlais des levantins arabes et non tous les levantins
pour ce qui est de ces informations ils se trouvent au net il suffit de taper turk origins sur google